【導(dǎo)讀】比利時前首相伊夫·萊特姆日前做客中國觀察智庫與中國日報新媒體聯(lián)合推出的《連線·全球政要訪談》節(jié)目，盛贊中國的“一帶一路”倡議、全球發(fā)展倡議、全球安全倡議和全球文明倡議是對全球議程的杰出貢獻(xiàn)，尤其是“一帶一路”伙伴國的積極潛力得以釋放。他表示，全球治理體系亟待調(diào)整，世界各國間應(yīng)加強(qiáng)有形和無形的互聯(lián)互通，同時應(yīng)注意合理利用資金，確保投資項(xiàng)目的可持續(xù)性。

記者：中國的“一帶一路”倡議與全球發(fā)展倡議、全球安全倡議、全球文明倡議一樣，都是向世界提供公共產(chǎn)品。您對這些倡議對于構(gòu)建更加公平的全球治理體系、構(gòu)建人類命運(yùn)共同體的作用有何看法？

伊夫·萊特姆：

我認(rèn)為這些倡議非常好，它們非常適合未來全球治理的議程。我們需要對全球治理體系進(jìn)行重新調(diào)整和重置。過去七八十年來，聯(lián)合國系統(tǒng)給我們帶來了很多好處和紅利。但全球治理體系需要重置和重新平衡。我們必須考慮各方意見。

I think these initiatives are excellent. And I think they fit very well into the agenda of the future of global governance. We need to readjust, we need to reset the global governance. The UN system has given us a lot of benefits and dividends over the last 70 -- almost 80 years. But there's a need for reset, there's a need for rebalance. We have to take into account all the views.

我認(rèn)為全球發(fā)展倡議、全球安全倡議，以及綠色發(fā)展領(lǐng)域的倡議，都是對全球議程的杰出貢獻(xiàn)。在今年秋天召開的聯(lián)合國大會后，我們有必要在接下來的一年乃至幾年時間里好好討論這些議程。我希望這能引導(dǎo)我們再次加強(qiáng)多邊體系，這個體系因美國在某些時刻單方面退出而遭受重創(chuàng)，引發(fā)了各國家集團(tuán)之間的不信任。

I think that the Global Development Initiative, the Global Security Initiative, also in the field of green development, these are excellent contributions to the global agenda that we have to discuss in the upcoming year and a couple of years starting with UNGA in autumn. And I would hope that this leads us to strengthen, again, the multilateral system that has suffered a lot from unilateral withdrawal by the US at certain moments raising distrust among blocs.

記者：您對歐洲全球門戶、七國集團(tuán)全球基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施和投資伙伴關(guān)系以及中國“一帶一路”等不同基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施計劃如何提高投資效率、加強(qiáng)全球經(jīng)濟(jì)和供應(yīng)鏈、促進(jìn)長期合作有何看法？它們有哪些相同點(diǎn)和不同點(diǎn)？存在哪些挑戰(zhàn)？

伊夫·萊特姆：

首先，我認(rèn)為共同投資，將經(jīng)濟(jì)體之間的投資和能力結(jié)合起來，也是一個建設(shè)和平的有力的政策工具。我堅(jiān)信經(jīng)濟(jì)合作、共建基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施、共同投資也會帶來和平——不僅是更好的發(fā)展、更好的經(jīng)濟(jì)發(fā)展，還有和平，因?yàn)槿藗兺ㄟ^相互貿(mào)易，通過項(xiàng)目合作，可以減少對彼此實(shí)施暴力的傾向。

First of all, I think that co-investing, bringing together investment and capacities between economies is also a very strong peace-building policy tool. I'm a strong believer that economic cooperation and common infrastructure, co-investment brings also peace, not only better development, better economic development, but also just peace, because people that trade, people that work together on projects, there will be more reluctance to engage in violence against each other.

所以回到你的問題，“一帶一路”倡議，以及歐洲的“全球門戶”計劃、美國對于改善基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施的投資、印度政府采取的一些舉措等等，都朝著同一個方向前進(jìn)，那就是要更好地釋放經(jīng)濟(jì)體的潛力、互聯(lián)互通的潛力。這一點(diǎn)至關(guān)重要。當(dāng)前，我認(rèn)為歐盟和歐洲經(jīng)濟(jì)需要對世界開放，需要集體行動，就像人類需要氧氣一樣。

So come then to your question, the belt initiative, the silk road initiative, the BRI, and also the Europe's Global Gateway, also the American investment in improving infrastructure, which is very much needed, some initiatives taken by the Indian government and so on., they all go in the same direction, which is to try to better unleash the potential of economies, the potential of connection interaction. This is crucial. I think at this moment, for instance, the European Union and European economy needs openness and collectiveness to the world as a human being needs oxygen.

為了增進(jìn)聯(lián)系，改善各經(jīng)濟(jì)體之間的基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施互聯(lián)互通非常重要。但是請注意，我們應(yīng)該做的不僅僅是互聯(lián)互通，我們還要注意增強(qiáng)互聯(lián)互通的方式，這種方式應(yīng)該比以往都更加可持續(xù)。這種互聯(lián)互通有可能是虛擬的，也有可能是有形的，通過公路、鐵路和空中進(jìn)行真實(shí)的交流，但一定要注意在互聯(lián)互通、交通出行和貿(mào)易往來中加強(qiáng)可持續(xù)性。

To improve the connection, to improve the infrastructure links between these economies is very important, but -- there's a big but -- we should do more than just interconnect. We should also look into the way we increase the interconnection and that way should be more than ever sustainable, so could be virtual when possible, could be physical with real exchanges over roads and over railways and through the air when needed, but improving resilience and improving sustainability of our connections, our mobility and our trade.

記者：合作是否會帶來一些挑戰(zhàn)？

伊夫·萊特姆：

是的，我認(rèn)為在我們現(xiàn)在這個時代，更重要的是分擔(dān)負(fù)擔(dān)，而不是分享進(jìn)步紅利。當(dāng)然，中國的經(jīng)濟(jì)取得了巨大的進(jìn)步，增長速度很快，而且現(xiàn)在仍在繼續(xù)增長。但在更成熟的經(jīng)濟(jì)體，比如西方的美國、歐洲和日本等，我們正處于使經(jīng)濟(jì)發(fā)展更加可持續(xù)的關(guān)鍵階段。與分享進(jìn)步紅利相比，更重要的是分擔(dān)負(fù)擔(dān)。當(dāng)然了，人們不喜歡負(fù)擔(dān)，人們更喜歡獲取利益，而不是相互討論我們應(yīng)該如何分擔(dān)負(fù)擔(dān)，例如應(yīng)對氣候變化挑戰(zhàn)和減少二氧化碳排放的政策。因此我認(rèn)為，能夠真正實(shí)現(xiàn)積極成果，帶來雙贏的良好合作至關(guān)重要。

Yeah, I think we are all live in times where it is more about sharing burdens than sharing the dividends of progress. China, of course, is still making an enormous economic progress with high growth figures and is resuming growth now. But in more mature economies, like the West -- the US, Europe, some other countries all over the globe, Japan. We are at the stage where it is of utmost importance to render our economic development more sustainable. And there it is more about sharing burden that sharing the dividend of progress. And that's of course a less popular item. People prefer seizing benefits than discuss amongst each other how we should share the burden of policies, for instance, that meet the challenges of climate change and reduce CO2 emissions. So I think that good cooperation that creates real view on positive outcomes, win-wins is crucial.

記者：“一帶一路”給貴國帶來了哪些令人矚目的成就？

伊夫·萊特姆：

我想說，就比利時而言，早在“一帶一路”倡議提出之前，我們就已經(jīng)獲得了很多來自中國的投資。我記得我曾與中遠(yuǎn)集團(tuán)的人士見過面，還有澤布呂赫和安特衛(wèi)普港與上海等中國港口間的聯(lián)系對比利時經(jīng)濟(jì)發(fā)展而言至關(guān)重要。華為等中國企業(yè)在比利時名氣很大，為我們提供高科技解決方案，這甚至有些超出了“一帶一路”倡議的初始目標(biāo)。比利時還有一個列日機(jī)場，作為阿里巴巴的配送調(diào)度平臺。所以說，比利時已經(jīng)和中國建立起良好的聯(lián)系，很多企業(yè)也和中國公司有密切的聯(lián)系，甚至已經(jīng)在中國開展了重要業(yè)務(wù)。例如，我的選區(qū)有一家名為必佳樂的公司，它是蘇州最早引進(jìn)的外資企業(yè)之一。再如，西安楊森是中國最早引進(jìn)的中外合資制藥公司之一。因此，比利時與中國有著悠久的傳統(tǒng)合作關(guān)系。

I would say that in terms of Belgium already before the BRI, we had a lot of Chinese investment. I remember that I met the people from COSCO and for instance for the Belgian economy, the links between a port area, Antwerp, Zeebrugge to Shanghai, to the ports in China has been crucial for the development. Companies like Huawei and others are very well-established in Belgium and provide us with high-tech solutions. It goes a little bit beyond what the intentions were of the BRI. We also have an airport of Liege that functions as a distribution and dispatching platform for Alibaba. So we already have very good connections with China, also a lot of enterprises that were closely together with China companies or have even very important presence here in China. For instance, in my constituency we have a company called Picanol who was one of the first companies established in Suzhou. We had the pharmaceutical company in Belgium that were amongst the first to be Janssen Pharmaceuticals for instance. So we have a long tradition already of good connections with China.

我認(rèn)為，當(dāng)今“一帶一路”倡議在那些基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施發(fā)展薄弱的國家發(fā)揮著更重要的作用，中國與西方、非洲國家的領(lǐng)導(dǎo)人一起，發(fā)展基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施，釋放經(jīng)濟(jì)潛力。在那里，它確實(shí)產(chǎn)生了良好的效果，為當(dāng)?shù)厝颂峁┝烁玫姆?wù)，讓人們生活更加便利。我最近去了索馬里，看到那里修了新鐵路，看到這些基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施給人們的日常生活帶來了什么，以及這些更完善的交通設(shè)施所帶來的經(jīng)濟(jì)潛力。

I think that the BRI now today plays a more important role in countries that until now had a weak development of the infrastructure, where China joins forces with the West and with the leadership of countries in Africa to develop their infrastructure and to unleash economic potential. There it really pays out in terms of better accessibility, better service to the people. I was recently in Somalia and I could see, for instance, a new railway connection, what it brings to the people in their daily lives, and also the economic potential these better connections bring.

記者：一些西方媒體可能會說，中國的“一帶一路”把基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施計劃帶到了歐洲或拉美，但他們也帶來了債務(wù)陷阱。你的意見如何？

伊夫·萊特姆：

是的，我們對此必須要小心。我認(rèn)為全球大多數(shù)經(jīng)濟(jì)體都在利用“杠桿”的重要作用，所以相關(guān)貨幣政策和貨幣調(diào)整應(yīng)該重點(diǎn)考慮到這一點(diǎn)。“一帶一路”投資也是一樣，必須要合理，妥善考慮各國的經(jīng)濟(jì)狀況和回報能力，確保投資后該國的狀況比投資前更好。我認(rèn)為在大多數(shù)情況下——絕大多數(shù)情況下，情況確實(shí)是這樣的。

Yeah, we have to be careful for that. I think that the most of the economies worldwide have built up quite an important leverage. And so monetary policy and monetary adjustment should take that very well into account, including in terms of the BRI, there always has to be a good reasoning, a good thinking over the payback capacity of the economy, of the country, and make sure that after the investment, the country is better off than before the investment. But I think that in most of the cases, in a vast majority of the cases, this is reality.

當(dāng)然，我們作為西方國家也投入了發(fā)展援助，但可以這樣說，我們被現(xiàn)實(shí)打敗了，也就是說，我們的很多發(fā)展援助并沒有給有關(guān)國家?guī)砦覀兿胍慕Y(jié)果。腐敗、治理能力、合理利用資金、合理利用投資等問題是關(guān)鍵的先決條件。因此，我們在這方面應(yīng)該非常小心，以確保當(dāng)各國簽署合同并背負(fù)一定債務(wù)時，它們有償還能力。不過在大多數(shù)情況下，情況確實(shí)是這樣的，投資和基建確實(shí)改善了各國的經(jīng)濟(jì)。

Of course, we also as Western countries have invested in development aid. And it's fair to say let's be humbled by reality, which means that a lot of our development aid did not bring the countries concerned to the result we wanted. There are issues like corruption, governance, good use of money, good use of investment that are key, conditionalities. So we should be very careful in that field to make sure that when countries sign contracts and build up a certain amount of debt, they have the payback capacity. But in most of all cases, that's reality. And the investment and infrastructure actually improves their economic performance.

出品人：王浩 邢志剛

監(jiān)制：柯榮誼 宋平

制片：張少偉

記者：沈一鳴 張欣然 栗思月 劉源 夏琳 張釗 欒瑞英 辛欣 劉夏

實(shí)習(xí)生：楊恒瑞 莊舒涵

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